Muslims like to say
"Islam forbids the killing of innocent people" That's a real nice platitude, but what does it mean in the real world ? "how does Islam define innocent?" I have asked hundreds of muslims to explain it in writing with scripture
That Islam makes it clear that non muslims are guilty, the Islamic scholars that make statements about how "Islam forbids the killing of innocent people and condemn Sheik Osama Bin Laden" are lying for the protection of Islam .I encourage you to ask muslims to specifically prove none muslims are innocent according to the Quran, prove that disbelief is not a great oppression. Prove that disbelief is not corruption and the disbelief is not al fitnah or mischief. Here is some information to help you frame the question . Now I'm not saying it is impossible for a muslim to be a patriot , wish to live in America with no secret desire to see it under Islamic rule, 1. 2. Support human rights, and not wish to force people of other faith to submit to Islam. 1. I just wonder what ,with out all of that , what is the point of Islam?
If you have a question or comment I will try to explain what Islamic scripture has to say about the issue,I do not answer questions that don't have anything to do with infidels jihad .I don't care that muslims are supposed to be nice to each other or their mothers. There for I cherry pick from Islamic scripture and law about jihad, taiyya and the crimes I'm excused of . I just don't care about muslims bathing habits
What is the price of liberty?
Many people over look or dismiss the possibility that Islam itself could ever by a threat to the west and some how it is only the "misunderstanders of Islam" who will to commit violence in the name of Islam or want to enforce sharia laws on human. They insist that to even suggest that Islam could be a threat to the west makes you an ANTI-AMERICAN BIGOT . To those people I ask, What is the price of liberty ? Is it gullibility .What if The Quran and hadith explain what motivates muslims to act the way they do? What if the blending it to our western way of life for a few generations is something called for in the long term goals of Islam, Could it not become a threat in the future? Is it prudent to ignore Islam's possible effect on the promise of this country based on the founding documents? Is the constitution a suicide pact ?
"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free ... it expects what never was and never will be." -- Thomas Jefferson
"Liberty cannot be preserved without a general knowledge among the people." -- John Adams
"No man is entitled to the blessings of freedom unless he be vigilant in its preservation." -- General Douglas MacArthur
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. ... God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion; what country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. " -- Thomas Jefferson to William Stephens Smith, 1787
"The land of the free will cease to be when it's no longer the home of the brave."-- Rick Gaber
THE CONSTITUTION IS NOT A SUICIDE PACT
Jefferson's Formulation
Jefferson offered one of the earliest formulations of the sentiment, although not of the phrase. In 1803, Thomas Jefferson's ambassadors to France arranged the purchase of the Louisiana territory in conflict with Jefferson's personal belief that the Constitution did not bestow upon the federal government the right to acquire or possess foreign territory. Due to political considerations, however, Jefferson disregarded his constitutional doubts, signed the proposed treaty, and sent it to the Senate for ratification. In justifying his actions, he later wrote: "[a] strict observance of the written law is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to the written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the ends to the means."[1]
The Words Of Samuel Adams:
"The liberties of our country, the freedom of our civil Constitution, are worth defending at all hazards; and it is our duty to defend them against all attacks. We have received them as a fair inheritance from our worthy ancestors: they purchased them for us with toil and danger and expense of treasure and blood, and transmitted them to us with care and diligence. It will bring an ever lasting mark of infamy on the present generation, enlightened as it is, if we should suffer them to be wrested from us by violence without a struggle, or to be cheated out of them by the artifices of false and designing men."
Oppression / persecution in Arabic is different than in English.
Islam is Quran centric, the language of the untranslated Quran is Arabic there for the understanding must be based on Arabic words ,the words in question are
Al Zulm
Al Fitnah
Al mashad
Al munkar
The meaning of all of these words includes disbelief.
Mushrikûn http://www.pwhce.org/shirk.html
Az-Zâlimûn http://downloads.islambase.co.uk/booksOBM/zul...
For example differnt translation us differnt words for Al fitnah and Az-Zâlimûn.
Now translations aside the arabic words the orginal and can be heard plainly
http://www.ummah.com/what-is-islam/quran/soun...
Verse 2:193
Yusuf Ali:
And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God; but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression.
Zohurul Hoque:
And fight them until there is no persecution, and religion is only for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostilities except against the unjust.
T. J. Irving:
Fight them until there is no more subversion and [all] religion belongs to God. If they stop, let there be no [more] hostility except toward wrongdoers.
T.U. Hilali-M. Khan:
And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allâh) and (all and every kind of) worship is for Allâh (Alone). But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zâlimûn (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)
M. Pickthall:
And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrong-doers.
M.H. Shakir:
And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah, but if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the oppressors.
2.193. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allâh) and (all and every kind of) worship is for Allâh (Alone). But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zâlimûn (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)
Islam declared war on the world
CONDITIONS OF THE PLEDGE AT THE SECOND AQABA
When God gave permission to his apostle to fight, the second ‘Aqaba contained conditions involving war which were not in the first act of fealty. Now they bound themselves to war against all and sundry for God and his apostle, while he promised them for faithful service thus the reward of paradise.
Ishaq:208 "When Allah gave permission to his Apostle to fight, the second Aqaba contained conditions involving war which were not in the first act of submission. Now we bound ourselves to war against all mankind for Allah and His Apostle. He promised us a reward in Paradise for faithful service. We pledged ourselves to war in complete obedience to Muhammad no matter how evil the circumstances."
which can be read in Ishaq's Sirat Rasul Allah which can he found here on page 128
http://infidelnation.org/DOWNLOADS/Sirat.rar
Volume 4, Book 52, Number 267:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said, "Khosrau will be ruined, and there will be no Khosrau after him, and Caesar will surely be ruined and there will be no Caesar after him, and you will spend their treasures in Allah's Cause." He called, "War is deceit'.
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Volume 4, Book 52, Number 268:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Apostle called,: "War is deceit".
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Volume 4, Book 52, Number 269:
Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:
The Prophet said, "War is deceit."
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Volume 4, Book 52, Number 270:
Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:
The Prophet said, "Who is ready to kill Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf who has really hurt Allah and His Apostle?" Muhammad bin Maslama said, "O Allah's Apostle! Do you like me to kill him?" He replied in the affirmative. So, Muhammad bin Maslama went to him (i.e. Ka'b) and said, "This person (i.e. the Prophet) has put us to task and asked us for charity." Ka'b replied, "By Allah, you will get tired of him." Muhammad said to him, "We have followed him, so we dislike to leave him till we see the end of his affair." Muhammad bin Maslama went on talking to him in this way till he got the chance to kill him.
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Volume 4, Book 52, Number 271:
Narrated Jabir:
The Prophet said, "Who is ready to kill Ka'b bin Ashraf (i.e. a Jew)." Muhammad bin Maslama replied, "Do you like me to kill him?" The Prophet replied in the affirmative. Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say what I like." The Prophet replied, "I do (i.e. allow you)."
“’When it is possible to achieve…an aim by lying but not telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if the goal is permissible, and it is obligatory to lie if the goal is obligatory.
“’When, for example, one is concealing a Muslim from an oppressor who asks where he is, it is obligatory to lie about him being hidden.” [see text at note 15, infra]
“… ‘it is obligatory for a [Muslim] student to give a positive interpretation to every utterance of his [Muslim] brothers that seems to be wrong until he has exhausted seventy excuses. No one is incapable of this except a failure.’” [see text at note 22, infra]
) AL-ZULM (OPPRESSION)
The Meaning of Al-Zulm in Arabic:
The word Al-Zulm (oppression) is opposite to the word Al-A'del (justice) and is derived linguistically from the word Zalama which means the following:
Injustice, Darkness, Aggression, Doing the Inappropriate and Preventing a right etc.
People who commit zulm are called zalim-een.
2:193.
And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allâh) and (all and every kind of) worship is for Allâh (Alone).[] But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zâlimûn (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)
The Types of Oppression
http://downloads.islambase.co.uk/booksOBM/zulm.pdf
Allah (swt) has given many examples of oppression and oppressors in the Qur’an. We list below just some of these:
Polytheism - Al-Shirk: Allah (swt) says: "Polytheism or Al-Shirk is great oppression" [EMQ 31:13] http://www.ummah.com/what-is-islam/quran/noble/nobae031.htm
Disbelief - Al-Kufr: Allah (swt) says: “The Disbelievers are Oppressors" [EMQ 2:254] http://www.ummah.com/what-is-islam/quran/noble/nobae002.htm
He (swt) also says: "..Who does more oppression, than he who disbelieves in Allah.." [EMQ 6:21]
http://www.ummah.com/what-is-islam/quran/noble/nobae006.htm
Fabrication about God - Al-Kazib A’la Allah: Allah (swt) says: "..Whosoever fabricates something attributing to Allah they are the oppressors" (e.g. The Kufar, The Jews etc..) [EMQ 3:94]
Ruling by Man made laws - Al-Hukm Bil-Kufr: Allah (swt) says: "..Whoever does not rule by what Allah has revealed, they are the oppressors.." [EMQ 5:45]
Misquoting intentionally - Tabdeel Al-Qawol: Allah (swt) says: "..The oppressors among them intentionally misquoted what has been sent to them so we sent to them punishment from heaven because they oppressed by misquoting.." [EMQ 2:59]
Transgressing the limits Allah has set - Ta'addi Hudoud ul Allah: Allah (swt) says: "..This is the limit of Allah and whoever transgresses the limit of Allah he oppresses himself.." [EMQ65:1]
Sin - Ithem: Allah (swt) says: "..We did not send a messenger but to be obeyed in accordance to the will of Allah, if only they had come to you to ask forgiveness because of their oppression i.e. Sin of disobeying you.." [EMQ 4:64]
Inclining towards, supporting or accompanying Oppressors - Al-Rukoun: Allah (swt) says: “..And do not incline towards nor support or accompany the oppressor or hell-fire will seize you..” [EMQ 11:113]
Living amongst Oppressors - Al-Sakan fi Manazelhim: Allah (swt) says: "..And you lived amongst or in the houses of the oppressors and we showed you what we dealt them, so take heed.." [EMQ 14:45]
Taking Disbelievers as friends - Tawali Al-Kufaar: Allah (swt) says: "..Do not take for protectors your brothers and fathers if they are Kaafir, and if any of you do you commit oppression." [EMQ 9.23] and also “Whoever takes Kufar as friends are oppressors.” [EMQ 60:9]
The Types of Oppressors:
The Oppressor could be of one of the following Categories:
1. Al-Hukkaam Wa Al-U'mara’: Rulers & Governors e.g. Fahd, Mubarak, Clinton, Yeltsin, Netanyahu etc.
2. Al-U'lamaa’: Scholars e.g. Muftis of Kufr Regimes, Government Preachers etc.
3. Al-Afraad: Individuals e.g. Parents, Teachers, Employers, Employees, Husbands, Wives, etc.
4. Al-Jama'at Wa Al-Ahzaab: Groups & Parties e.g. Nationalistic Groups, Partisanship etc.
